Movies
[Interview] Bertrand Mandico on ‘She is Conann’
After seeing She is Conann at the Brooklyn Horror Film Fest, I couldn’t stop thinking about it. The film transported me to other planes of existence, and left me with a bunch of questions about the world She is Conann takes place in. Who would be better to answer these questions than the writer and director of the film, Bertrand Mandico.
*All of Mandico’s answers have been translated from French.
Exploring Surrealism in She is Conann: Bertrand Mandico’s Influences
She is Conann is very surreal, from its ethereal environments to its dream-like narrative. What is your connection to surrealism? Who are your influences, and do you view yourself as growing from the tradition of French surrealism in visual art in the 1920s?
The origin and heritage of surrealism fascinates me. Already, many artists precede surrealism, the symbolists: Gustave Moreau, Odilon Redon, William Blake, and Comte de Lautréamont. They had a very strong influence on the writing of Conann. Of course, the surrealists like Bunuel, Ernst, and Cocteau (even if he was not part of the movement) fulfilled me. And also especially the women of surrealism:
Léonore Fini, Dorothea Tanning… The heirs and heiresses that are found in film, literature, and comics: J G Ballad, Cindy Sherman, Paul Grimault, Charles Burns, the Chapman brothers…
The vision of surrealism spans the ages. It is a movement that has been activated and conceptualized by André Breton before WWI.
But this constant concept is in perpetual mutation. Its influence continues to nourish the arts. Surrealism is a black angel of imagination. It reappears before each scourge.
I was very struck by the gender nonconformity in She is Conann. The scene that stood out to me the most is when Rainer says he is becoming a barbarian and shows that he has grown breasts. What is the significance of this scene? What was the meaning behind choosing a woman to play Rainer?
Rainer is not gendered. He is all sexes. He is fascinated by Conann, he wants to be like her and to seduce her. I offered the role to Elina Löwensohn because I knew she would create a complex and ambiguous demon. I like to give actresses singular and unusual roles, not stereotypes, the roles that are usually given to men.
You’ve made a short film about Rainer. Can you tell me a little bit about the origin of his character?
Rainer is a demon with the head of a dog with an appearance reminiscent of R.W. Fassbinder (a filmmaker I revere). In different beliefs, the dog is the ferryman, the one who can go to the otherworld, the world of the dead. I wanted Rainer to have a modern look, that of a photographer of fashion and of war, a person who feeds on flesh. Originally, there was the Celtic myth of Conan, who inspired Howard for the novels. The Conan of Celtic legends is surrounded by Fomoires (hellhounds), demons with the head of a dog. I am partial to the original image, to the mythology. In my film, Rainer accompanies Conann in her damnation and the more Conann dehumanizes herself, the more Rainer is humanized and lets his romanticism show. The first time I filmed Rainer for the theater was for a short film. He makes a Faustian pact with a director in lack of inspiration.
The film spends very little time on Conann’s mother, but as Conann ages, she grows wings mirroring the ones her mother grew when she abandoned Conann. What is the symbolism behind this?
The bat wings are there to represent a being who accesses a “superior” state. A sort of archaic angel. The wings are in reference to the fallen angel of John Milton and also Walter Benjamin’s angel of history. Conann has the possibility of becoming immortal, but she prefers to prolong her harmful influence otherwise, as for her mother, she is a martyr who calls for vengeance.
Initially, I wanted to make a vampire or succubus film, but I found that the subject is seen and seen again. And what interested me was working on barbarism, aging, betrayal of ideals, and old age who kills youth.
How did you make the decision to show most of the film in black and white? Can you talk about the significance of color?
I wanted to create a unity in the film which traverses eras and styles. Black and white unifies everything. We shot the whole film in an ancient steel factory at night. We pierced the darkness with light. We shot in 35mm and all the effects were done during filming. The black and white film attenuates carnal violence and magnifies the light. The color appears in two distinct ways, that of solace for the hell sequences and the meal sequence. I wanted to show hell with pastel colors which contrasts against the usual imagery of hell. Pastels are the colors of old age and early childhood, the colors of the cycle of life.
In contrast, there are inserts of warm and bold colors, they come to punctuate the film and bring flashes of violence, like Rothko animated.
As Conann matures, her barbarism changes. At 25, she is a warrior, at 35, a betrayer, at 45, a sadist; and at 55, a psychological terror. How did you come up with this progression for her?
I started from the most raw and primary barbarity: “revenge” while trying to imagine a crescendo of sophistication, harshness, and perversity over the ages and eras – as if the different decades dictated the trends. But it is a very arbitrary vision. I wanted the film to gain momentum, but for the spectator to never anticipate what was going to happen. The first victim of Conann is Conann, and she must be surprised at each transition to the next age, even if she expects to find her future in ambush.
It seems in her life Conann was revered and feared, but is now damned to wander without her memories in hell. Can you elaborate on this punishment? In the universe you’ve created is there a moral arbiter?
I was inspired by the divine comedy and the circles of hell, the damnations. Hell, in most beliefs, is being stuck in a loop of suffering and remorse, to be condemned to forget and recover memory, to relive harmful actions. The only thing that can save the barbarian is regret. Free will exists, it consists of taking another path when it appears, but it still needs to be seen. The deviations allow the avoidance of fatality.
The film is extremely focused on memory and personal history. Can you elaborate on why you think this is so important?
Memory is the engine of the story. The memory of the original trauma – the death of the mother who provokes the desire for vengeance. The oblivion to escape her condition, the parenthesis. To modify collective memory to take power, install fascism, and finally recover her memory and her misdeeds, like a torture, the passage into the world of the dead. This question of the place of collective and personal memory is for me, a central question. The manipulation of memory is a tool for those who want to assert their power in an authoritative fashion. Also, dematerialization – the reliance on computers (which have their own problems of memory and storage) – the perpetual questioning of history, is a mistreatment of our memory, a weakening. It is a scourge that worries me and is the origin of many ills of our society.
The aesthetics of She is Conann reminded me heavily of films like The Neverending Story, The Labyrinth, and The Pagemaster with their otherworldly sets and fast-paced narratives. Are you influenced by these kinds of films?
Not really. I thought of Lola Montes by Max Ophuls for the structure of the movie. Michael Powell for fantasy. And then all the films that use the ellipses, for movement through time. Throughout the sequences, I invoke filmmakers like Fritz Lang, Kaneto Shindo, Klimov, Pasolini, Cocteau, Coppola etc… The journey into the history of the barbarian is also a journey into cinema.
She is Conann is incredibly queer from the character’s relationships to their bodies. You’ve said in previous interviews that your work is queer in the original sense of the word of challenging heteronormativity. Why is this important to you? Is it hard to make these films in the present times of bigotry against the LGBTQ+ community?
Because the Queer vision advances the narrative, breaks the clichés, deviates the imagination, and challenges censorship, it is an artistic and political choice, one does not go without the other. I’m trying to remain a free spirit. The original meaning of queer is synonymous with the freedom of mind and creation. I make films with a “modest” budget compared to the complexity of my ideas. I shot in 5 weeks in a unique location, which required us to be inventive and creative. Producing a film is never simple, the most important aspect is that it can reach the maximum number of spectators and touch their hearts.
She is Conann combines beauty with barbarity, having beautiful women as barbarians, and glitter in scenes of extreme violence. Why is there a softness to Conann’s world when she and her compatriots are so harsh?
I wanted to talk about a very hard subject, barbarism, by offering a disturbing spectacle, because I juggle between attraction and repulsion.
I try to create a formal distance so that the viewer can take cinematic pleasure by watching my films. The form must carry the substance, like a wave carries a boat and prevents it from sinking into the abyss of pathos. I am working on the shift to render the unpleasant as tolerable.
But barbarism has many faces, like my Conann(s). A brutal and primitive face. But also a gentle, reassuring face. Barbarism hides in the pageantry, the smiles, the festive, the impeccable clothes, the superficial politeness. It is the manicured power that looks good in the media while shamelessly crushing the weakest under their patent shoes.
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It’s always interesting to get a peak behind the curtain, especially in works that rely so heavily on symbolism and metaphor!
Keep your eye out, She is Conann officially releases November 29!
Brooklyn Horror Film Fest kicked off its 10th year with a screening of the highly anticipated Queens of the Dead. This sparkly and zombie-fied night was presented by Horror Press and set the tone for at least two after parties. As a good queen does.
Before the movie began, director and co-writer, Tina Romero, took the stage to share that she is “very proud to be my dad’s kid, and proud to carry his torch, and super super proud to do it in a way that shows queer joy and queer resilience.” After watching the film, it’s clear Romero meant business as she expanded on the zombie world built by her dad, the genre icon George A. Romero.
A Scrumptious Evening
The opening night film was also unforgettable because it was followed by a Q&A afterward moderated by New York’s baddest emcee, Xero Gravity. Tina Thee Romero took the stage with cast members Samora la Perdida, Julie J., Tomas Matos, and Nina West. They kept the vibe fun but also addressed why this movie is especially important in dire times like these.
Nina West said, “I’m really proud that this movie is coming out specifically right now.” West explained, “We talked about how important this film is right now. How queer people, I think, are going to have the opportunity to grab onto it and hopefully feel a sense of community, a sense of self, and a reminder of how vital it is to have chosen family and the ability to have space. Watching it tonight with an audience, that’s what I’m reminded of.”
The Romero Legacy is Very Much Alive and Well
Gravity opened the talk by addressing Romero’s dad’s work, “So, Tina, your father’s legacy is invaluable to the horror community, especially the horror community of marginalized people. When I look into the audience, I see a bunch of queer people, a bunch of different skin tones, I see people with disabilities, and for that, I know we all appreciate George A. Romero’s legacy in terms of allyship.”
When the applause died down, she asked Romero what Queens of the Dead has to say about our current state in society. Romero said she felt incredibly grateful that Shudder and IFC Films are putting this movie out in 2025.
Romero elaborated, “It’s not easy to get a little indie movie out into the world. It’s so important that it’s coming out this year because what a year we have had. Holy shit.”
Romero continued, “It feels so good to have a big queer movie coming out in a time when our community is feeling really under the threat of erasure and under attack. I feel like what our movie says is we are here and we are wonderful, come along for the ride. I really hope that this movie brings a little bit of empathy. A little bit of ‘I can’t help but laugh at and love these characters.”
Romero concluded, “I really love my father. I love the films he made. It was very important to me to make sure his legacy continued in a way that said some shit and with queerness on screen.”
A Night of Glitter and Gore
During the talk back, Romero shared a lot of cool facts. One being that her and co-writer Erin Judge worked on this film for ten years. She also shared that Dawn of the Dead is her favorite movie in her dad’s franchise when Gravity pointed out a couple of nods to the movie in Queens of the Dead.
The Q&A went by entirely too quickly as the audience fell in love with this amazing crew. However, the love and community spilled into the bar area afterward. People were given the opportunity to thank everyone for their work and tell them they loved the film. People were offered penis-shaped cakes, which is a fun gag from the film. Attendees were also given a chance to get a little bloody at the hands of local makeup artist Dime. They applied bite marks and blood to everyone who wanted to feel like they were a part of the hottest zombie movie of the year.
It was another scrumptious evening in Brooklyn. It also left many of the audience with an axe wound right in the heart. I’m excited to see how Brooklyn Film Fest follows this movie, and I will be in the bar area this weekend, waiting to see.
Queens of the Dead will slay in theaters on October 24.
I feel like I’m always taking swings at Blumhouse Productions and would like to explain why I’m usually frustratedly screaming into a mic, “For whomst?!” My relationship as a horror fan with most of the movies this company produces cannot be summed up in quick, snide comments and eyerolls. It’s bigger than that because when Blumhouse gets it right, they get it right. Get Out, Us, Creep, Creep 2, Happy Death Day, Freaky, M3GAN, and Drop are some of my favorite movies from the last 10 years. The Paranormal Activity franchise is the reason I show up for found footage films today.
However, while the mission to seemingly greenlight anything is good on paper, it does lead to some questionable films. Some projects feel irresponsible to fund, and some that are just bad make up the majority of their library. For every diamond, we get a bunch of movies that leave us scratching our heads and wondering if the obvious conversations were not being had. Which is why I picked four Blumhouse movies I have legitimate beef with. I think these are prime examples of why I have a hard time getting excited when the company’s PR starts up for a new project. I’m also respectfully asking if there are things in place to avoid these issues and concerns in the future.
The Exorcist: Believer
Two girls disappear in the woods and return to their families, who soon learn they are possessed by an evil entity. My surface problem with this Blumhouse movie is that they learned nothing from greenlighting the Halloween trilogy and put the cart before the horse again. However, my main grievance is that I was led to believe this would be a Black-led Exorcist movie. That would have been groundbreaking in this almost exclusively white franchise. More importantly, Leslie Odom Jr. and Lidya Jewett were more than capable of leading this movie. So, why were they shoved into the margins? We had a double exorcism and gave the non-Black child most of the cool things to do. The film also made Odom Jr.’s character the chauffeur for Chris MacNeil, who was shoehorned in for fan service and given nothing important to do. The Exorcist: Believer was unbelievably bad to boot.
Dashcam (2021)
Two friends livestream the most terrifying night of their lives while on a road trip. This movie would have done fine because it was from the team that brought us Host. As we were still in pandemic mode, many of us were curious to see what they would do next. So, there was a lot of face cracks when it came out that problematic Twitter personality Annie Hardy would be basically playing herself in the film. From her political stances, COVID denial, racist rants, and that time she turned a pride flag into a swastika on Twitter, she’s very blatantly a person who does not need a bigger platform.
It’s irresponsible to allow a movie to use her as stunt casting in a Blumhouse production. Again, this movie would have been better off without her because it would have ridden the steam of Host. Instead, it turned people off, and some refused to see it or review it.
They/Them (2022)
A group of teens at an LGBTQ+ conversion camp suffer psychological torture at the hands of the staff while being murdered by a masked killer. I feel there were too many cis people weighing in on this movie. I personally watched an awful person who masquerades as a journalist leap into Twitter conversations where Trans and non-binary people were discussing why this movie wasn’t it. So, I chose to keep my thoughts to myself and listen to the community, who should get a say.
I encourage you to do the same. Here is the Horror Press review by Bash Ortega. I also encourage you to read Kay Lynch’s essay at Bloody Disgusting. Consequence of Sound also had a review that is worth reading. While this was one of the movies under the Blumhouse banner that had its heart seemingly in the right place, we know intention and impact are not the same thing.
Soft & Quiet (2022)
An elementary teacher meets with other white supremacists and then commits a hate crime. This movie felt like a bunch of shocking events strewn together, and I wanted my money back for this rental. I have no idea how this film came to be what it is. Personally, I hope there is a version that doesn’t feel like racial trauma porn somewhere, but this is not it. I kept wondering who this movie is for, and the internet confirmed it wasn’t for POC. With all the ways to capture white supremacy on film, this is what they did? I feel this is the most irresponsible movie Blumhouse has subjected me to. It’s the reason I no longer get excited when I hear a filmmaker I am rooting for is working with the company.
In Closing…
I know I come across as flippant when I drag most of Blumhouse’s films. However, it stems from a place of concern and frustration. Bad movies like Firestarter, Unhuman, Night Swim, and Imaginary are one thing. These movies that clumsily handle important topics that are the reason I’m usually waiting for their titles to hit streaming. Whether they’re putting Black leads in the backseat, greenlighting movies where internet trolls are being given roles, or adding to the canon of racial trauma porn, I’m tired. I don’t know how to fix it because I don’t know if it’s a lack of support or interference regarding the writers and directors.
I don’t know if it’s just quantity over quality leading to some messy and unnecessary movies making it through the cracks. However, if Jason Blum can unpack why M3GAN 2.0 flopped, then it would be cool for him to unpack what he’s learned from the movies that should actually be cause for concern. As a film girl, I would love to see these Blumhouse choices laid out like case studies. Whatever lessons learned and actionable items taken to not make these mistakes again, could be beneficial to other production companies that are also struggling. All I know is an honest investigation is needed if they’re going to keep yeeting films out at this rate. We want to root for all horror. However, it’s hard to do that if we’re wondering who is (or is not) in the room for so many important conversations that need to happen.
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