A charismatic leader who’s believed to possess otherworldly abilities. Forced views about the world and society, fostering an “us vs them” mentality. Exerting control over relationships, finances, and other personal matters. Utilizing various tactics to break down a person’s defenses.  Isolation and humiliation. A purist expectation of an ideological belief.

These are some of the qualities that can help one to identify a cult.

In other news, if you didn’t know, vampires are all around us. Probably not in the actual undead Nosferatu sense (although a girl is always dreaming) – but in the form of a subculture with varying beliefs and practices.

The “vampire underground,” if I may, is filled with well-meaning people searching for acceptance and a community that aligns with their spirituality, forming many groups within the vampire subculture. Jay was a part of one of those groups – but he had to exit after finally coming to grips with its toxic and cult-like nature.

Find out about Jay’s experience with the vampire cult in this special interview.

One Person’s Experience Escaping a Vampire Cult

We’ve got a lot to cover, so we’ll start with the basics. How did you come across this group in the first place?

So, I must have been in high school. I was a strange child who discovered the internet and right away got attached to these various different subcultures. At some point, I came across [a book]. I know this is going to sound crazy, but I had this dream, and it involved the author.

Very specific things happened in this dream, so I went on a whim and emailed the author and told them, ‘Hey, I had a dream about you. In my dream, XYZ happened,’ and the person confirmed these things. Basically, the response was, ‘You’re a person of interest. Here are some people that you should talk to.’ From then on, I was put in contact with these people.

Now, from what I understand, the general belief is that vampires aren’t turned like we see in the movies. They have to be born vampires, but can be Awakened to what they are. So, are you a vampire?

I don’t like using the V word in general. I think when it comes to the English language, it’s probably the best-suited word to describe a person who requires outside sources of energy to maintain physical-mental-emotional equilibrium. I think that there are many groups out there that have different definitions of what a vampire is.

This is probably a good time to point out that we’re not talking about the traditional blood-sucking or sanguine vampire sort here. This group involves psychic or energy-based vampirism, correct?

Yeah. But from the perspective of this group, the source of vampirism is wanting to have greater control of energy manipulation. To do that, you underwent an energetic alteration of your spiritual body. This took place many, many years ago in past lives, and that change carries forward. That alteration to your spiritual body is what gives you that need to replenish your own energy much sooner than other people.

That’s really interesting. Now, this isn’t the only vampire group around. Do you think they all are cults?

No, I don’t think they’re all cults. I think because of the group’s use of spiritual hierarchy, in particular; there is a predisposed level of toxicity. I guess because there is a pecking order that naturally falls into place within the group.

How did that hierarchy operate?

So, within the group, there are three subgroups. They all operate and work with energy in unique ways. If you go by the lore of the group, [the leader’s subgroup TAKERS] requires the most energy, and [my subgroup GIVERS] provides energy.

For the longest time, I mean, I was a part of the group for about 15 years, [my group was] treated like dirt; not treated very well by the other levels of the hierarchy. Oftentimes they were just treating [my group] as a necessity, basically like a fount of energy to be used.

Almost like a food source?

For the most part, yes. And [the third group the MILITANTS], which are very aggressive types, believe a lot of their past lives revolve around being physical warriors. To them, [my subgroup is] too emotional or delicate, useless, and they didn’t really feel the need to have them around. And that kind of behavior carried over into the then-present time in the group.

Did you ever feel a sense of community there?

At first? Yes. This group was based out of the Midwest. I’m from New Jersey. So as a very weird kid – in high school – it felt nice to find other weird people. It felt nice to find a group that I resonate with. But even from within the group, I always felt ostracized mostly because [of my role in the] group and even more so because I was a long distance member. I wasn’t there in person to do all the group rituals or the group meetings; a lot of the back and forth took place over emails for many years. They would do an event every so often in person at a convention they would hold, and even then, it was very, very toxic.

What was your first red flag?

In hindsight, the first red flag was probably my First Degree ritual in the group.

For First Degree, the group meets in a very specific ritual chamber. They’re all convening in there, and you are ushered in separately and placed in the center of a circle of members who tear you apart.

Every interaction you’ve had with them, they will use it against you – and they will do this for hours until you are just a miserable pile.

I now know that all the interactions you had with them as a group were them figuring out ways to get under your skin.

You could tell that [MILITANTS] would sit around and be like, ‘I wanna make this person cry. This is gonna be really good to use against them.’ How you react to them is whether you pass or fail that First Degree. And if you fail, you are not a member of the group.

I remember there was a First Degree where they had brought out a bucket of ice for this person to stand in. There was another girl that I remember being in a separate room and they were screaming, calling her fat, fat-shaming her. There was a former member, who was a POC who’s first degree was deemed so heinous it’s still never discussed. (It should be noted that in its nearly 30 years of existence, there have only been 4 POC to ever join the group.)

For another member’s First Degree, the leader, who we shall refer to as The Emperor, was nervous about this member failing and going public about what happened and asked, ‘Do you think I should record this?’ And everyone said no, but The Emperor did it anyway without anyone’s consent. This went against the ‘rules’ of the group, but that somehow didn’t apply to The Emperor.

Intimate things are brought up during a First Degree. If you had an abortion, if you have issues with your spouse, if you have trouble with your bills, your money, drugs, a parking ticket. Are you scared of spiders? Are you scared of heights? Are you ashamed of your body? Nothing is off the table. They will do whatever they can to break you down in that setting. And it’s scary in a ritual circle. It’s dark, it’s smoky, you’re surrounded by people that you kind of don’t know that well yet because it’s your First Degree – you’re new. and they’re there to just make you cry and feel like shit. You, quote-unquote, shared this experience, you cried together, you exposed yourself, and yet somehow afterward, you feel great.

After this you’re basically trauma bonded to them. And from that point on, anything you share with them can be used against you to keep you there.

Unfortunately, tactics like that are used in many cult-like groups. One indicator of a cult is fostering an “us-versus-them” mentality, pushing members to feel further isolated from society. Is that something you experienced?

Absolutely. And it was only made more pronounced around 2018 when there was an internal schism and a specific member was considered an enemy. The Emperor was telling people, ‘Your name will not be used. Can you tell me something about this person?’

It was all aggregated in writing and then released to the public. I personally was approached to give my two cents about this person, and at first, I wasn’t even told that I was gonna be a part of it. They just asked me in passing. They didn’t ask my permission; they didn’t ask if they could use my name – and they published me in the document and included my name in it. I had no idea what it was even for, but the person was basically ostracized from all the communities they were a part of as a result.

When that happened, a large number of people left the group. Mind you, some of them were elders, which were like founding members. When these people left, they were considered enemies. And if you were their friend, you basically couldn’t function in the house.

Were there any other ideas that you were supposed to have as a group member, even if it had nothing to do with the group?

Yeah, you were expected to be extremely, progressively liberal. And I’m pretty liberal, period. Incredibly liberal. This was – Um this is not normal. The membership and the prospective new members were basically asked, “Are you a Republican?” If you said yes, you had a problem on your hands.

A part of that, I can understand. It’s a group with very progressive views on identity as it pertains to sexuality and gender, and they want to feel safe in their group. So the R word became a bad word. You would never want to be labeled as the R word, or a bigot. They’re the bad guys, and you definitely didn’t want to be accused of being one.

So, there’s an expected political ideology?

Absolutely. But that’s also what drew me in. I wanted to be in a group of people that accepts me for who I am. I didn’t want to feel uncomfortable. But at a certain point, you start to realize how cutting that could actually be, because if you don’t fit in with exactly what The Emperor wants, you’re bad. It was only a matter of time before you too, became the enemy.

What made you open to talking about this now?

So after I left, I made it a point to say that I wanted to go of my own free will. I would hold my oaths that I made in my First Degree and in my Second Degree, but I wanted to leave with grace and I didn’t want any drama. And shortly after I left, a few other members left as well.

And this leader has basically taken to a smear campaign publicly on Twitter, publicly on their Discord channels, and is making us out to be the bad guy. We’ve done our best to just stay quiet and not say anything. But at this point, I think it’s time for someone to say something.

A part of me wanted to make this anonymous. But I feel like if I were to hide under anonymity; The Emperor would go after some of the other people and assume that it’s them.

Well, I appreciate you opening up about this and I’m sure they do too. The controlling nature of groups like these can make it more difficult to speak out.

I think, at first, it was a well-meaning cult. It was a group of friends that had a shared belief system that was harmless. But I think as the group leader withdrew more and more, they began to see the members of the group as forms of entertainment and would manipulate them – to do crazy things, to be toxic, to tear each other down.

We would regularly write up reports on each other under the guise of ‘assisting’ someone in doing what they called ‘shadow work’. Shadow work is largely considered a personal practice of self-exploration where you confront the more difficult elements of your personality in the pursuit of self-development. In this group, shadow work was often pressured to be ‘public’ and weaponized within the group, which twisted the whole purpose of what shadow work was meant to do. Going back to what I said earlier, all of our engagements were there to get to know each other and use it against each other. So, we would do anonymous, little reports, expose the ‘crazy bad’ things that these people were doing even when they were just like innocuous things – and these people would get punished, they would be embarrassed, they would be exposed. It’s shameful, but for many years, that’s what was going on.

It seems like group humiliation was pretty commonplace.

Absolutely. I mean, one of the members had their marriage, like, fucking blown up. Personal things that had nothing to do with anything were brought up.

Plus, the group leader’s significant other is a millionaire and would loan money out to people and hold it against them. And let me tell you, the only member actually expected to pay interest on this loan was a person of color. No one else did. Since the time of publishing, it has been confirmed that the loan was ultimately forgiven.

Did you ever invest in the group yourself?

I’ve invested in the group, my time, my energy, my attention, hundreds of hours, hundreds, like at one point we rewrote the rule book literally in a weekend and that was like 100 pages, 100 pages in a weekend. Before my First Degree I translated the entire website into Spanish, atleast one hundred articles that were never used. I was told it’s a shame they weren’t in French. OK. But I also purchased all of The Emperor’s books. I was a Patreon for them. I supported all of their endeavors. I helped make their incense. And when I say make incense, you don’t know how much work goes into making incense. It’s hours of work.

There was a weekend where we got together, The Emperor did not show up, but they made sure to send us a batch of incense for us to fucking mash because you have to mash it for hours. And so we spent the weekend mashing the incense for The Emperor so that they could sell it on their website for their personal gain. I mean, there’s tons of situations. These are just the first things that are slowly popping back into my head.

I can only imagine. I mean, you’ve got 15 years’ worth of stories. Was the group making any money?

Every year, the members put on this convention, and it was a labor of love. People would pay to attend this convention, and little by little over the years, because the group has been around for a while, the group amassed a sizable war chest of money.

We’re not talking about little 10-person events. We’re talking about 100 plus people coming to pay $60 a pop or more, you know, flying in from other states. We even had people flying from other countries coming to attend this event. This was a proper event. We never saw any of that money.

Towards the end, everything was just ‘make money’. We were running the social media and the convention. We were making audio for them and video components for the group. It was hours and hours of work, and no one got paid for it.

They were even throwing around this idea that, you know, the groups’ money, which is a nonprofit, should be rolled into The Emperor’s money. Especially since The Emperor felt as though he was owed this as payback for members who had long since left that had caused him upset.

Did anyone try to address how the money was being handled?

A couple years ago, we started bringing up the money issues in the house and how things were being raised and used. We were told we were being bigots.

Oh. Was the money being donated or…?

It was not. It was only after members pressured The Emperor and their spouse to donate to Black Lives Matter after what happened to George Floyd, that they parted with a small donation. Any instances after that were met with excuses and a firm ‘no’. The moment we questioned how the funds were being used, we were accused of being bigoted because we were accusing the Jewish person of misusing money. No one even knew this person was Jewish.

I know this is gonna come off certain ways. But this is literally how it was presented. The moment we questioned how the money was being managed, The Emperor became unsettled as if we were personally attacking their partner, who exclusively managed the funds. They accused us of being bigoted for daring to question.

And I’m just like, how do you, how do you even argue with that? Now I feel like an asshole; I guess I’m gonna shut up because I don’t wanna be labeled a bigot. So that is how it was shut down. Meanwhile, they’re going willy nilly on money.

Do you have any advice for people within communities that could run into these cult-like dynamics?

I think this is good advice for anyone in a subculture. You view each other as family, and you don’t really stop to think that these people who had your best interest in mind for so long could turn on you. As marginalized groups, we get to choose our family.

In a lot of ways finding this group, these were my chosen family. and in a way, yes, the spirituality blended with that. But you trust these people, you don’t expect it. And it’s very hard to see when things are happening.

It’s very hard to see that this small community of friends with shared beliefs could turn so toxic or sour. In hindsight, I wish I saw these things. It’s hard to notice,  when I watch these crazy cult shows, I hear people, and they’re like, how could you ever get stuck in a cult? And I’m just like, it’s easier than you think because you don’t expect it when it’s happening, it’s so slow, it’s so insidious, and suddenly, CULT.

Especially when things are done to further isolate you.

Absolutely. And you know, the pandemic accelerated all that because we were all locked up at home, and these communities are based on Discord. So you spend the day typing and texting and Zoom calls, and these are your friends. Then you realize. you’re not their friend; you’re their entertainment. Especially when it became ‘who are we tearing down’ flavor of the week..

Do you have any words for the current group members?

You know what really hurts me the most is that as we were leaving, The Emperor said a lot of really nasty things. They saw how we left; we said nothing negative. We left with grace. And these people that we considered friends, turned their nose up, gave this person a free pass, and didn’t stick up for us. And to this day, they allow this person to shit-talk us. That is the one thing that drives me the most crazy is we were friends. How could these people allow this person to just continue on this tantrum months later? To continue dragging our name in the mud, and not at least say, ‘Hey, you’re wrong because we’ve experienced this for ourselves, and what you’re saying isn’t true’.

To the people who stayed behind, I’ll say this: It’s only a matter of time before you are made out to be the bad guy. No matter how good you are, or how obedient, one day you’ll be in our shoes. Once your services are no longer needed, or when you disagree, the teeth will come for you. Where we are today, you will be tomorrow. Look at the history.

Unfortunately, it seems like dissent isn’t exactly smiled at in the group. And, you know, it could be that they fear retribution themselves.

I mean, I fear retribution at this point. I really do because I don’t want to be buried in any litigation, but I wouldn’t be surprised by it. These privileged people, that is their first reaction, to lawyer up, cease and desist, throw a tantrum.

But I’m not saying anything that’s not true, and I’m also not naming any names. It’s scary, sticking your neck out there, especially when you know this person—let me tell you—this person believes they can actually stop someone’s heart. I don’t believe it, but it’s something that they’ve boasted about.

It’s hard to speak out against a leader who you think can stop your heart with their thoughts.

Yes. And, going back to originally how I even encountered this group, the idea that this person can enter your dreams has basically fostered this environment of this belief that they are omnipresent. They can enter your dreams; they can stop your heart. There’s an underlying feeling of ‘You know, if you question my authority, hey, maybe you’re gonna get into a terrible car accident and drop dead.’ The power dynamic is there, even if they won’t admit it. But I don’t believe that anymore, for many years however, I did. I refuse to give that person power anymore. Maybe that’s why the other members stayed behind, because they too are scared. I don’t know.

I think that’s a difficulty a lot of people have when trying to cut ties with toxic groups like these. You’ve been made to feel that if you’re not with us, you’re going down. Is there anything specific you would like to say to The Emperor if they should happen to be reading this?

I don’t know if me and The Emperor were ever great friends. I came into the group very young, and I looked up to The Emperor and one other Elder who had left, almost as parental figures. You know, I was raised in a very weird way, I didn’t really have a parental figure in my life. And so being dropped into this group straight out of high school, I kind of latched on to these people and I tried to acclimate to the dynamics in the group. I learned to walk on eggshells around them, and yet I really grew fond of these people.

I think that a bunch of the other people who left with me were much closer to this person, and it probably hurt them even more when they left. I may have been kind of insignificant, but having my identity be a part of this group for so many years and all of a sudden be free of it was strange but also very liberating.

At the end of the day, if I had to tell The Emperor one specific thing, it would be:

I’ve seen this happen to you time and time again, and for someone who emphasizes that everyone should ‘do the work, and go to therapy’ I’m stunned that you would even question why this keeps happening to you. For someone who claims to be so brilliant, it’s incredible how truly out of touch you actually are with your friend groups, and those who you are oathed to.

For now, in your circles, we are the bad guys, but only until history repeats itself again, because the problem is not us, it’s you.

Many people looked up to you, I looked up to you, but the sad truth is, never meet your heroes, because they just might turn out to be a bootleg LRH.

Well, I really respect your bravery to talk about all of this again. I know it can’t be easy, especially when there’s the fear of retribution. But I think that it’s important. Speaking about your experience might inspire others to find their own way out of toxic situations.

I hope so. And I hope if the other members do read this, I wish them the best. but also, it’s time for them to Awaken themselves and not rely on others to do it for them.