If you read my Top 3 Horror Films of 2023 list, you’ll know I’m a huge fan of Frogman. It’s a weird, chaotic, and original found footage movie that hits all the right marks. Recently, I had the chance to talk with writer/director Anthony Cousins about it. And I couldn’t have been happier. Huge thanks to Anthony for taking the time and listening to me ramble before asking questions!

Some light spoilers ahead.

A Chat With Frogman Creator Anthony Cousins

Brendan Jesus: First of all, Frogman is absolutely amazing. I put it as my number one film on my top three horror films of 2023 list. I consider it the Hot Fuzz of cryptid films. Let’s start real quick by talking about the final title card, “Frogman will return.” Is that a threat or a promise? 

Anthony Cousins: It’s a little bit of both. It was really just a joke; you can just put that at the end of anything. And I thought it would be funny! We now have a fully fleshed-out concept for Frogman 2. We haven’t started writing it, and I don’t think we’ll start writing it until we know we’re going to do it. Hopefully we’ll know soon if the VOD release goes well. So Frogman, hopefully, will return. 

I love to hear it. Out of all the cryptids, I kind of feel like the Loveland Frogman is one of the under-the-radar cryptids. And it makes me sad. What was it about Frogman, specifically, that made you and John Karsko want to tackle this cryptid? 

I didn’t hear of Frogman until 2018. Both of us, and Nate [Tymoshuk] who plays Dallas, discovered Frogman around the same time. We found him hilarious and fascinating. I love all kinds of cryptids, cryptid culture, and the lore. He is just so unique, there’s no one else like him, with the wand and everything. Our buddy Nate just wanders off into the woods and chases animals on his own. He was obsessed with this mythical creature called the Piebald, which is like a special kind of deer as far as I know. When summer hits, guaranteed on Instagram he’ll be out in the woods almost every night looking for this deer. So I thought what if we made a movie where Nate was obsessed with the Frogman and he was running around the woods trying to catch that? That’s where it really started. 

It is interesting that Frogman is one of the only cryptids with props. 

You’re right. Most cryptids don’t come with accessories! 

Humor me for one second, there’s a lead-up to this question. It ties into why I appreciate your film so much. I’m a huge fan of old programs of Coast to Coast with Art Bell. I love listening to people call in and talk about ghosts and cryptid sightings. I’ve realized how these ‘real-life sightings’ can lead to backlash, ostracization, and isolation from peers, friends, and family. The angle you take with Dallas’s character feels like one of the most authentic portrayals of cryptid/conspiracy theorist characters in horror. What made you and John take this more realistic angle? An angle where someone has a cryptid sighting and it basically ruins their life. 

It’s funny you mention Coast to Coast. The short we were shooting, that John was directing, was Coast to Coast inspired; in 2018 when we found out about Frogman. He decorated this radio station we were shooting in with all this cryptid stuff, and I Want To Believe posters. He had a poster of the US, and it showed a cryptid for each state, and Ohio had Frogman. That’s how we discovered him. We were really inspired by the Patterson–Gimlin footage, you know kind of opening the movie—because we knew all the action would be towards the end for the most part. It’s an interesting thing trying to figure out how you can ramp up something like that. As found footage fans know, it’s hard to justify, once shit gets crazy, why you’re still filming. It’s almost like once we started ramping up, we knew we only had so much time left. So we thought, how about we open with a glimpse, letting the audience know this isn’t going to be a movie where you don’t see anything. We shot on the camera my dad would actually bring on family vacations to shoot film of us. We all loved getting our hands on that camera and shooting our own footage for a little bit. That’s what really inspired the opening of Frogman. It makes sense that Dallas would be inspired to go to film school and make his own movies. It’s really tough to make a career out of that, and I can speak from experience. It’s an exaggeration of my own life. I was 30 when we wrote this. You know I had done the Scare Packages and a bunch of shorts. I wasn’t a failure, I wasn’t at rock bottom like Dallas. But I did feel like I should be further along by the time I turned 30. This footage is all he’s got, so he’s truly at rock bottom from the beginning. Being told [constantly] that his footage is fake is what sends him over the edge. 

That’s a perfect explanation. You point out how Dallas’s justification to keep the cameras rolling is the truth. Was this filmed in Ohio? 

We shot in Minnesota, where we’re all from. From what I hear, quite a few Ohio residents and Frogman enthusiasts have seen it, and they’ve said we have done a good job capturing the spirit of Loveland. I was very relieved to hear that because I still haven’t visited Loveland yet. 

So Frogman fans have given good feedback? 

Thankfully, yes. I was worried at first. Originally, I didn’t know if anyone would care. Frogman was so unknown. The town doesn’t really embrace Frogman, there’s people that live in the town and don’t know about Frogman! There’s not really a ton of Frogman purists out there. Since then, I’ve realized there is a huge Frogman fandom. The 2nd Annual Frogman Festival is happening this weekend, and we’re going. So I’ll finally get to see Loveland in the flesh! That’s when I realized there will be some people out there who will be critical of our portrayal. We’ll see how this screening goes. Someone enjoyed it enough to invite us out to the festival! That’s a good sign! Unless it’s a trap…

That would be an interesting sequel, you guys go to the Frogman Festival and the cult kidnaps you. 

The sequel could be based on a true story!

You kind of answered this, but for confirmation. What came first, the idea for a Frogman movie or your own interpretation of the Frogman cryptid? 

The legend. We started in 2019 so it’s difficult to track it all back, but I do know we started with, “What if Dallas was obsessed with this thing and went out into the woods trying to capture footage of it?” It all snowballed very quickly from there. And that’s where the found footage idea came from. I’m obsessed with The Shadow Over Innsmouth, the Lovecraft story. I end up working it into a lot of my stories, so this was another aspect of that. I thought it would be fun if we mashed up the ideas of Point Pleasant and The Mothman, or these cryptid towns, with The Shadow Over Innsmouth. But then it’s like, what if under the surface they’re mating with Frogman? Like residents of the town are children of Frogman. It seemed like such a fun and crazy way to go with it. Aside from the sightings, there’s not a whole lot of lore about what Frogman is and where it came from. 

You had a gorgeous VHS release from Rotting Press, but do you have any plans to release limited edition Froggy Pebbles?

Oh man, that’s a great idea. I hadn’t even thought of that. We could see if Kellogg wants to do a limited release. 

Sorry, a more serious question now. I didn’t realize until looking at the credits that there were VFX credits. That surprised me because, besides Frogman’s wand, everything felt and looked practical to me. Can you give me a bit of a breakdown between the practical and digital effects?

Peter West and Piers Dennis did our VFX, and they did a fantastic job. We tried some hundred percent VFX shots of Frogman, but it didn’t really hold up. And it was not Piers and Peter’s fault. It was just because of the analog lo-fi feel of the movie, when all of a sudden you add large amounts of VFX, it kind of takes you out of it. We always had planned on being practical. It’s a fully practical suit, pretty much all the effects are practical. Pretty much all we added were things like his tongue, which was practical, but the tongue coming in and out of his mouth we did digitally. The wand, as you mentioned, is VFX. Slight blinking and throat inflations were VFX additions. The suit looks incredible on its own, but there’s something funny about shooting found footage. I have a lot of experience shooting practical effects, but when it comes to found footage you pick one specific angle where the effect really sells and you know how long you’re going to hold on that shot before it falls apart. With found footage it’s different, you don’t really know. You’re there shooting, and it’s almost like you’re shooting a stage play. You’re lingering on it. But then it started to look like a suit, so the blinking and throat movements brought extra to it. And that would let us hold on to it a lot longer. 

Using digital effects to enhance incredible practicals adds so much to a film. 

I love that it didn’t even stick out to you, that’s the beauty of it. You’re not noticing it, it’s just helping to bring the creature to life for you. 

SPOILERS AHEAD

The last question I have for you is about the fourth wall break at the end if I can call it that. Was that always part of the plan, or did that come as the story developed naturally?

That came pretty early on. The actual ending went through a lot of variations before we got to the film’s current ending. Like I said, I’m a huge found footage fan, I’ve seen a lot of them! One thing I haven’t ever seen, that I thought would be really fun, was having Dallas make it, and what if we were just watching the movie he made? We weren’t necessarily watching found footage, what if we were watching his documentary, what if we ended the movie in a theater? I thought it would be fun. Watching it with audiences in a theater is great. Without fail everyone starts clapping when they see ‘A Film By Dallas Kyle’ and then it pulls out into a theater and everyone’s like, “oh my god!” It works every time. There was a time when we thought, what if that ending is also found footage? Maybe a documentarian is capturing behind the scenes of the premier? We shot it in a way that it could be like that if we decide to go in that direction. One thing we’re excited about doing in Frogman 2 is reverse engineering that, trying to find a way of starting in that realm and moving back into found footage. 

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Again, we want to thank Anthony Cousins for putting up with me and for answering questions from a Frogman superfan. If you’d like to catch Frogman in all of his slimy glory, don’t fret! 

Frogman croaks his way onto VOD on March 8th!